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  • Riley Heligo
    Riley Heligo closed this thread because:
    Exceedingly old.
    17:27, April 2, 2017

    It's of mine understanding that many silent hill fans belive that paralel dimensions exist in the series, even though I don´t share that opinion I would like to know why people think they exist. So I ask everyone who do have this belief to post here: arguments, line of thinking, quotes from games from which your theories are based. On my part there will be no effort to discredit any theory posted here, I'm only interested in understanding ideas that are different from mine. ; )

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    • First of all, we don't use the word "dimensions" in some exact word-for-word definition. Don't take it so literally, you could easily replace dimension with "world" or "universe" or "existence".

      The SH1 guidebook explicitly states:

      " The line between dream and reality is indistinct. The roads leading outside of town have all collapsed, as if there had been a severe earthquake. If one does not understand what happened in this town, neither will one be able to grasp the answer to this question. One thing that is certain is the fact that in Silent Hill, the border between reality and unreality is indistinct. It may be that the town itself has moved somewhere that is like another dimension, or it may be that this is all happening inside someone's dream. Could it be that the real world awaits beyond the collapsed roads?"

      Also:

      "As for the "right side" and the "reverse side," in short, it isn't that one is reality and one is a dream; the fact is that neither is reality."

      Yes, people moved out of Silent Hill for brief periods of time, but why would EVERY single person ever be gone? Why is it that in SH1-SH3, only people relevant to "darkness" are seen? You attribute the loss of people to "people moving out", but that makes no sense that the entire town would be abandoned.

      Heather in SH3 refers to the Otherworld as "another world", and an "alternate reality". Joseph in SH4 says it feels like "another dimension".

      In fact, SH4 blows the theory apart when you see a character sleeping in reality, while being in the Building World (Richard).

      http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/File:Sleepingrichard.png

      Eileen's body was in reality in St. Jerome's, and when she dies in the Eileen's Death ending (she got ripped apart by the spiked machine in the Otherworld), the news report states she simply died in her sleep.

      "But I do know that if you die here... then you die in the real world too..." —Henry Townshend to Eileen Galvin

      Also, this:

      http://i.imgur.com/ZHKwh1C.jpg

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    • I'm probably wrong but I always thought the Otherworld was a demension that manifests your psyche and the fog world was the otherworld leaking into reality and changing it. this is why monsters appear in the fogworld but the fogworld is more "real" looking than the otherworld cuz it's a blend of otherworld and reality. the apartment in silent hill 4 is sorta like a fog world in that walter's otherworlds are leaking into it and changing reality of it. The fog world and otherworld could be demensions on their own and that there is a real silent hill with people but you never go to that demension only the fogworld and otherworlds which could be why you don't see anyone since you can only see people "attuned" to that demension but that what about cybil and why would she be attuned to the fogworld. 

      again i'm probably wrong so if you could help me understand I'd appreciate it. also I know this isn't the place but i had another theory that the ghost of silent hill 4 are not ghost but monsters created by walter. this explains why billy and mariam are not ghost but the twin victims monster and why the ghost attack henry and not walter even though he killed them and should be the brunt of their vengeance. joseph who doesn't attack henry but makes him the "reciever of wisdom". I think the ghost are monsters who are trying to kill henry so that he's sacrificed for the 21 sacraments but again if I'm wrong please tell me

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    • The Fog World and the Otherworld are two halves of one alternate reality. Neither is part of the real world.

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    • Some belive in one alternate reality other belive in many and some belive in none. The truth is that nowhere in any games it is stated that paralel dimensions don't exist, but it´s also never stated that they do(with the exception of SH4 which is clearly different from other SH since those worlds were created by Walter and are part of his subconciess, so the "otherworld" we see in that game is not the same one from past games), we see characters sometimes wondering if what they are seeing is real or not but that doesn't mean that they have crossed to another plain of existence or whatever.

      Vexinkora, instead of saying that you are right or wrong, I think it would it would be better if I state what I belive. So you can see if it makes some sense to you.

      One major point in SH is: why do those things in the games happen? SH2 provides some answers, it states that the place where the town was built used to be a sacred place to the people that lived there, the book Lost Memories (in-game) says:


      "They called this place 'The Place
      of the Silent Spirits'. By 'spirits',
      they meant not only their dead
      relatives, but also the spirits that
      they believed inhabited the trees,
      rocks and water around them.
      According to legend, this was
      where the holiest ceremonies
      took place."

      So I belive this is the reason why the town can manifest things that otherwise wouldn't exist, thanks to the power of these spirits, the natives knew about this power and considered it sacred. So the town (not a paralel version of it) is a special place , a place capable of doing special things, in the real world. So for me the fog we see in the "fog world" is nothing more than mere fog, in SH4 while contemplating one of his pictures in his room Henry says that there is rarely a sunny day in Silent Hill, so fog is quite common there... so why does the "fog world" have to be a different world? I think everything we see in the games (expept SH4) resolts from town's power and in the way it transforms (literally) the real world, that's what manifesting something is.

      The road blocks can also be manifestations. The fact that there are no people in the town can also be explained the same way (if the town makes monsters apeer why could it hide people or even make then disappear? Lisa Garland mentions people disappearing in SH1 so it's a valid possibility) it is also metioned in SH1, SH2 that the town was a resort town, and SH2, SH3 tells us that the town lost it´s reputation as a vacation place, with the town depending on turism its not strange that it´s economy went down and forced residents to move away. So you see there can be many explanations to the fact that there are no people in the town during the events of the game, and all based in what the games tell us.

      As for the otherworld, it´s again the same thing, reality transformed by someone's nightmare or state of mind. The information presented in the games tells us many things and is there for a reason, to make us understand the games, and from there on you choose if you consider that information or not and how you interpret it.

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    • Because the Fog World, even in 1-3, is not reality. The guidebook proves this. It's also been compared to a dream state. It's also why technology and communications such as phones cease to exist - you can't connect to people from a different plane of existence. Yes, Silent Hill is usually quite foggy in reality, but that doesn't mean the Fog World is reality. The fact that it snows in SH1, out of season, is a result of Alessa's dream.

      SH2 is set 10 years after 1, SH3 17 years after 1. It's inexusable to attribute every resident in town in that timeframe to have "moved away".

      Not every Otherworld is the same. Think of it being plastic, flexible, changing and adapting. Same goes for the Fog World.

      If I remember correctly, Heather in the Otherworld Hilltop Center makes a special comment about the wheelchair behind the glass. And Heather IS Alessa, and in the game, she's constantly dropping terms such as another world, and alternate reality. Henry drops the D word (dimension) again in SH4 when examining the black pool under the crucifix.

      And you have no right to say Walter's Otherworld is completely different, when all Otherworlds are essentially derived from the ancient power of the land. It makes no sense for Walter's Otherworlds to be alternate dimensions, while Alessa's, James's and Heather's being reality just because you want it to fit your perception. SH4 is canon - deal with it.

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    • AlexShepherd

      That guidebook text is a introductory text for an introductory game (SH1), it´s not even trying to explain the situation, it just describes it and gives some possibilities about what is going on, so the players can have something to consider. There is nothing in this text that proves me wrong. My theory is that the powers of the town change the aspect (sometimes in a otherworldly way) of the same ("The line between dream and reality is indistinct") those changes are associated to someone's nightmares (It may be that the town itself has moved somewhere that is like another dimension, or it may be that this is all happening inside someone's dream."). As for the last line (" Could it be that the real world awaits beyond the collapsed roads?") that "real world" can be interpreted as the world (orpart of it) unchanged by the powers of the town.

      Why technology and communications don´t work? that subject is never explained in the games, so any explanation can be valid, anything can cause it, like the powers of the town...

      About the people missing... I just wrote some possibities for that fact, possibilities that explain the reason why there are no people in town, all backed by in-game information, if it´s the truth? I don´t know, but it makes sense. In the games, dates are never stated, so I don´t know if SH2 hapened before or after SH1...

      "Not every Otherworld is the same. Think of it being plastic, flexible, changing and adapting. Same goes for the Fog World." Man, nobody said that every otherworld is the same, in fact for me it´s not even a world, it´s a nightmare that is indeed different from people to people (Alessa, James, Claudia and in a way Walter) and that transforms the real world (not permanently, when the nightmare is over the town comes back to normal, or to a more normal state).

      About SH4... Of course SH4 is canon, that's not even in discussion! But it´s not me that's saying that the otherworlds that we see there are different from the other ones, it´s the game itself, right from the start, in this memo:

      Book Scrap

      Through the Ritual of the Holy Assumption, he built a world.
      It exists in a space separate from
      the world of our Lord.
      More accurately, it is within, yet
      without the Lord's world.
      Unlike the world of our Lord,
      it is a world in extreme flux.
      Unexpected doors or walls,
      moving floors, odd creatures,
      a world only he can control...
      Anyone swallowed up by that world
      will live there for eternity, undying.
      They will haunt that realm as a spirit.
      How can our Lord forgive such an
      abomination...?
      (This part of the book is too damaged
      to read.)
      ...It is important to travel lightly in that
      world. He who carries too heavy
      a burden will regret it...
      (The book is too damaged to read any more.)

      This memo is also an introductory memo that can be found in the very begining of the game behind the book shelf before going to the subway world, and it says that the worlds we see in SH4 were created by Walter through a ritual, and it keeps describing then as separeted and different from they're Lord's world (which world? the real world or the otherworld? it does't matter which one is being refered here because in any case it´s still separate from Walter´s worlds). I copied the entire text in case you want to update de SH4 memo list in this wiki, I checked it and this memo is not there. SH4 is unique in many ways when compared to it´s predecessors, and the creators of this game had no problem saying just that. 

      The world otherworld is many times used (even by me) when people are refering to the nightmare transitions and to the state of world during those. So when Jeremy Blaustein say's that team silent often used that term, it´s not proof that there is other dimensions in the series, because we don´t know the context where the term was used. I have a lot of respect for Jeremy's work and I know that without him SH wouldn't probably be as good as it was, but, he was not a member of the creative team (with this I mean that it wasn't him that wrote the plot and created the scenario), it wasn´t him that created this concepts that we are discussing, probably only Keiichiro Toyama, Hiroyuki Owaku and Misahiro Ito know the truth about all this, if one of then, in one of these days say that there are multiple dimensions in SH then I will be the first to admit that I was wrong, but until then I will keep looking at the games (and just the games) and building my theories based on what I see in then.

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    • No offense, but I find it impossible to understand how anyone could look at Jeremy Blaustein's statements or what the guidebook has to say and still claim there's only one reality. You can write off the sources and statements you don't like all you want, but it's very clear that Jeremy Blaustein is saying that he was always told that there are multiple worlds, and whether the guidebook is an "introductory text" or not does not change that it goes out of its way to also suggest that there are multiple realities. I don't buy for one second that the writers didn't explain in detail a huge aspect of the games to their official translator for the single biggest market for the games. The guidebook even points out what's going on: "Of these, the most likely explanation is that the events took place in the world of Alessa's nightmares." The usage of the word "world" makes it pretty clear they're talking about another place. This is coming directly from Team Silent themselves.

      To go with this theory, it would mean that literally thousands of people have disappeared in one little town, a feat that could not and would not be ignored by the media. That doesn't make even a drop of sense, because not a single character or memo mentions this jaw-dropping mass disappearance. The guidebook puts the population of the town at about 30,000 people (which debunks the theory that people had mostly moved away), so to claim they all just up and vanished is a bit ridiculous.

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    • Latas, the line in the guidebook that proves you wrong is "The fact is that neither is reality". Neither the Fog World or Otherworld are reality. Boom. There you go.

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    • Again... it's a matter of interpretation. By my theory, both the fog world and the real world are different from the real world because both are resolt of changes, done by the spirits powers, in the real world, so yeah none of them is "real", because none of then is exactly like the real world. 

      AlessaGillespie, no offense but I also find it impossible to understand how anyone could play Origins, HC, SM and Downpour and still say that they are as good as past games. This is JUST an example, don't take it personaly. People have different perspectives and different opinions, you have the right to enjoy every game in the SH series the same way I have every right in having this or that idea. I don´t have the SH1 guide book but by the quotes that AlexSheperd wrote here, the only way that the guide book proves that there are multiple dimensions is to interprect it in a very literal way.

      Also I didn´t just say that people vanished, I also wrote about other possibities, in fact the truth can be that some people moved away and that the rest who didn´t are hidden by the towns powers (during the events in the games), since those powers shape reality as we see it... it's a possibity as good as any other. "not a single character or memo mentions this jaw-dropping mass disappearance." Lisa Garland mentions people disappearing, doesn´t mention how many... and if people did have disapeared there wouldn´t be anyone to write a memo lool

      One other thing that I took note is that many of the arguments that suport the multiple dimension theory come from sources outside the games themselfs, and many times interpreted in the way that fits that theory.

      But let´s take a look into the games... in SH3 when Vincent confronts Claudia in the church, he claims that the scenario arround then is different (refering to the otherworld transition) and when Claudia asks him to go home, he says that that church is his home... soo is Vincent mistaken? is he in a paralel version of his home, or is he really in his home? even though the scenario is different he still says that the church is his home. In SH2 you have Laura that pretty much tells it all, if the town calls people with darkness in they're hearts why is she there, in the fog world? if she is in that paralel dimension as we see it, why doesn´t she sees any monsters? could it be that she is just in silent hill and since she doesn´t have darkness in her heart she just sees a town with a different aspect and with no monsters? And finnaly in SH1, "this town is being invaded by the otherworld, by world of someone's nightmarish delusions come to life" So if there is just one alternate dimension does that mean that the fog world is being invaded by the otherword, that dimension is being invaded by itself? now that doesn´t make any sense. Couldn´t it be that this town (real world) is being invaded by the otherworld, that is a world where nightmarish delusions come to life (are manifested). There is also another line where Harrys says that: reality is becoming nightmare (real world becoming otherworld).

      So you see, this theory of mine is not as ridiculous as you two try to make it sound everytime I come up with it. It is backed all the way by in-game information, because at the very least , I know that it was team silent who did it, as for: bookguides, strategy guides, and impressions of members that were not part of the creative team and that can´t possibly talk by the entire team, that i'm not so sure...

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    • Dude, I just showed you sources from the game, with 4 using the word dimension twice. At this point, all you're doing is arguing over semantics. It clearly states neither is reality, not "neither is like reality". There is nothing wrong with supplementary material either. If anything, you're taking things literally. World can be repaced with dimension, or unverse, or plane of existence, or even reality in the sense that the Otherworld is an alternate reality.

      And even in game information can be interpreted differently, so you can't say yours is backed up by it. In another dimension, we never said it can't be intertwined by another, such as Henry's windows looking out to the real world, or Heather hearing chatter from mallshoppers while in the Otherworld. Nowhere did we say that just because something isn't in the real world, it isn't real. Monsters do exist, in another dimension of reality.

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    • You completely missed the point of what I was saying. Twisting words and making up excuses for why official sources don't agree with you is not the same as liking or not liking a video game.

      The guidebook specifically mentions the town as having a population of "under 30,000". For people to have simply moved away, that would either mean some huge catastrophe happened that made everyone move away at once (which just happens to have never been mentioned in any official materials, including the games themselves), or it had been decades since the town had that population. Why would the developer give an incorrect number based on the town's population from several years before? The Otherworld and Fog World don't hide anybody from each other, or else how do you explain all the people in SH2? Is it just some unexplained and illogical coincidence that 4 different people could all see and interact with each other, despite having different stories? Where are the other 30,000 people? To address your point of no one being around to write a memo: you are aware that every character from the games post-SH1 comes from outside the town? And so would be aware of the largest mass disappearance in the history of the world? Why didn't Heather mention it? Or Douglas? Henry even traveled to the town and took a picture of the lighthouse. Why didn't he say "Silent Hill, that weird place where everyone just freaking disappeared"? Why does Joseph Schrieber never mention it in his article? Douglas doesn't mention it in his memo either. Why? That would be a huge thing, something the town would be known for. Sorry, but none of it makes any sense. There's simply no way to explain why no one noticed the mass disappearance of tens of thousands of people.

      I don't get the Vincent evidence at all. The church is his home, Otherworld or not. That's why he notices that it's different, but still calls it home. There isn't anywhere else for him to go. Laura is there because she feels unbearable loneliness, which drew her to the town. Because her internal emotions aren't the same as that of others, she doesn't see the same things, just like Eddie doesn't see PH. She is still in the alternate reality, it just doesn't look the same to her.

      You keep bringing up quotes, as though Harry's some psychic who knows everything about the Otherworld. A better source would be Heather, the reincarnation of the girl who controlled that reality for 7 years. And as I have said before, Heather repeatedly calls it a different world. Even putting them on the same footing, you're still ignoring when characters say things that don't back up your theory.

      Sorry, but your theory is not backed up by the games. The idea of mass disappearance makes no logical sense, nor does claiming the Otherworld hides some people from each other but not others, and Heather's statements provide strong evidence that the theory is wrong. Handwaving and ignoring every single official source that doesn't say what you want it to only proves that you'll say anything to support your theory. Whether you like it or not, the guidebook and Lost Memories are official works that were not put together because "lol we want to give people bad information". Trying to suggest that the developers didn't give their official translator full information about a hugely important aspect of the games is completely silly and insulting to both Jeremy and Team Silent.

      And like Alex said, "Neither is reality". There's really no way to get around that.

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    • The reason why Cybil went to silent hill was because all communications with the town ceased, this would happen if there were no people there... anyway just so we can understand each other, this guidebook you guys talk about, is it the game manual or some other separate publication?

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    • I'd have no problem believing the fog world and other world are seperate demensions but the problem is than why is people like cybil there? I can understand why harry is allowed to be in the fog world cuz him and alyssa's other half chyrl were close so alyssa could let him in and also use him to stop dahlia by leading him through the town and stuff. and i could understand why james and them were there cuz they were messed up by their own darkness...but why cybil? the game doesn't imply she is messed up by her inner darkness and she was a complete stranger to alyssa and chyrl so why would she be allowed to cross demensions? and I know it says "neither is reality" but if the otherworld was leaking into reality creating the fog world than the fog world isn't reality but somewhere between reality and the other world. like being half asleep and seeing something that isn't there, you're not awake or asleep but somewhere between the two

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    • http://silenthillchronicle.net/shkgb.htm

      http://www.arcade-gear.com/Games/Silent_Hill/Silent_Hill.htm

      It's a translation of a Q and A section from one of the guides here. I believe it's the one with Harry on the cover.

      Cybil (and Douglas) are in Silent Hill entirely by chance, according to this:

      http://www.translatedmemories.com/bookpgs/Pg98-99.jpg

      Cybil happened to be driving along Harry and Cheryl and was caught in Alessa's dream/nightmare. This is evident when Harry spots her motorcycle, but she's not there anymore. Yes, innocent and unrelated people can be caught in the alternate reality - nowhere in the game series states that this can't occur.

      And Vexinkora has a really good metaphor with the dream analysis. Reality can be compared to being awake. The Fog World can be compared to Non-REM sleep (when you're sleeping, but not really dreaming). The Otherworld can be compared to REM sleep, when the brain and mind have extreme severe dreaming activity. In this case, Alessa is the dreamer. This metaphor is touched upon in the guidebook. Even the movie has a reference to this metaphor, when Dark Alessa says "This dream must end."

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    • It's important to note that the theme of people with darkness in their hearts being drawn to the town didn't start until after the events of the first game. While the alternate reality always existed, it wasn't as powerful as what is seen in the games until Alessa came along. She was what caused it to strengthen to the point of being able to attract people with dark emotions.

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    • I'm just confused on what the fog world is in relation to the otherworld and reality. I know it's not reality but it just seems like a mix to me so can someone explain it so I  understand it? if they're both a part of alyssa's dream than why does it shift to otherworld instead of being constant? i mean i understand the sleep with out dreaming thing but I would call that a mix of being awake and asleep

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    • The Fog World appears to be the dimension that lies between reality and the Otherworld. Many people believe that the Fog World and the Otherworld are actually two halves of one dimension. We know that it changes over when Alessa dreams in the first game (and presumably in Origins). The changes seem to be random in the other games, though it's likely that it shifts to the Otherworld when a character's emotions are strongest.

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    • so i was right when i said it was between reality and otherworld? thank you now i understand it. 

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    • AlexShepherd, according to the manual of the european version of SH1 Cybil goes to silent hill to check on the town after all communications with it had ceased. This makes sense, in the intro movie of the game we see Cybil receiving a call in her radio, after that she gets up and leaves the place where she was, that kinda sugests that she was ordered to check on the town.

      Here's the link so you can check it out:

      http://s844.photobucket.com/user/simonshx/media/Silent%20Hill%20Booklet/shbook6.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10

      That this manual is contradicting Lost Memories, the same way the Silent Hill The Novelization contradicts Homecoming when saying that the story ended with the Good + ending while in HC it is stated that she never came back. Prima Official Silent Hill Strategy Guide (US) is filled with incorrections when it comes to puzzle solutions and other stuff. The thing is, all this material has Konami logo on it, and some of it is wrong or contradictory... So how can we tell the official from the "official"?

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    • It's not a contradiction. Cybil was sent from Brahms to Silent Hill because of the lack of communication, THEN was pulled into the alternate reality by chance (which is what BOLM is talking about).

      Silent Hill: The Novel isn't entirely canon with the game either. It's not necessarily wrong or contradictory.

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    • It's also worth noting that there was not a lack of communication with the entire town. The Play Novel says that Cybil was talking to a friend at the Silent Hill Police Department when the phone suddenly went dead, which spurred her to get on her bike and go to the town. A disconnected line =/= the abandonment of an entire town.

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    • I agree with AlessaGillespie on this one - it's like two seperate versions of the same reality - In the real world, day turns to night and back to day. In the otherworld, there is fog which, possibly when Alessa dreams, turns to dark. I read another thread on here which compares Silent Hill to A Nightmare on Elm Street - that is a good way to think of it. In the same way that people fall asleep and wake in an alternate version of the same reality where Freddy hunts them, there is a real Silent Hill, probably still populated, and a nightmarish alternative, which we see in game, shut off from the real world with all of those barriers and caved-in roads,plagued with monsters which the protagonist can only really escape (or 'wake') from after facing up to whichever demons brought them into town. Imagine though, when Vincent remarks "Monsters? That's what they look like to you?" he really means that they ARE real people, in 'normal' Silent Hill. Ultimately, in a game as vague and open to interpretation as Silent Hill, it is unlikely everyone is ever going to agree on any one theory.

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